SPEAKERS:

Tim Vieira and Ela Crain

Ela Crain  00:00

Welcome to Nonconventional where we interview unconventional people or people with unconventional careers. My name is Ella crane. And today we have Tim Vieira with us. Tim requires very little introduction, he's quite well known, but very briefly, he is the founder of Special Edition holding, which employs more than 400 people. And these days, he's very busy with Brave generation Academy, which teaches hybrid programmes to people over 12. Tim has many companies in Africa and Portugal, but to start our conversation, I will touch briefly on brave generation academics. Tim, I would like to talk about education. First of all, knowing that you dropped out of university and today you're having an academy teaching people, can you please share your story?

Tim Vieira  00:57

Thank you very much for having me on Nonconventional, great name and I certainly feel that I fit in. As you say, it's strange to think about someone who dropped out, going into education, but maybe that's why I understand what we need in education because I didn't fit in. But I must say that I loved school. It was the school that didn't love me. I love the friends; I loved all the passions I could pursue with regards to support in some of the subjects. But I've suffered from Vixia. So, it's not understood at that time. I struggled a bit but, in those days, you beat Vixia out of you. So, I got into university and dropped out. I dropped out because I wanted to be an intrapreneur, open businesses, make my future and be able to create wealth. When I was going to university, I had people there that I didn't see doing these things, I saw them as lecturers that were telling me what to do but they weren't doing it. I almost wanted to spend time with people that were doing these things. And for me, that's education. When I started looking at Brave generation Academy, I looked at it and said, how do we throw it all away? How do I not call myself a school? Because even scoring myself at school brings you back to something that we've been doing for 200 years, the same way. Everyone at the same speed, everyone's doing the same subjects. How do we use the technology we have today and make it personal, have our students be able to follow those passions and find their purpose? Teach them to go at their speed, be flexible, teach them perseverance, creative thinking, all those things that we need for when we come out at 18 and we can say I'm prepared. Not when you come out at 18 and say, I don't know what I like, let me try this. I've never failed. I've never tried to be something that I think I might have liked to be. And when I tried, I didn't lock it, then I decided that's not for me, we will try something off. And that's what we did with Brave generation Academy, we decided to change this track record looking backwards thing. We want to change things to the future and the only way we could do that was by bringing in technology, with technology, we can do so many more subjects, we can go at our own pace, we get all flexibility, we get so many good things that every student and learner with us, it's a personal site for them. We also wanted to bring in people that would mentor them and we call them learning coaches. They are mentors because our curriculum is given to you in a perfectly motivated lesson, one by one but we needed these mentors to be there to help you through it. But more importantly, to connect you with those passions you like or those purposes you like and the community and skills you're looking for. And then also breaking away from a traditional schooling system. We wanted to have these smaller hubs but hubs that had students from 12 to 18. So, there would be a lot more peers, there'll be a lot of empathy between our students. That's the real world and we learn from other people. We don't ask how old you are because people are at different stages and go at different rates, it's a real melting pot. So, we got people from every country, it's unbelievable and then we keep to these three pillars, which is knowledge, skills and community. We don't have our tennis courts, but we've got 28 tennis courts around us because we've got the whole community. We've got golf teachers, music teachers, art teachers, it's unbelievable what's out there and the community wants to teach. It's something we used to do long ago, we used to spend time doing apprenticeships, learning things and giving knowledge downwards. And then we decided, no, we'll build a wall. We'll teach you everything you need and then good luck. But good luck isn't working anymore. No, we've got to a point where we get to 50 years old and if you asked so many people, are you happy? And they say, no, I studied the wrong thing. I did the wrong thing. I should have been braver and tried different things, I should have not listened to everyone who told me something, I should have done it myself. I should have had more experiences. And that's what we want to do, we want to help our learners knowing that they can learn throughout life. They don't know what they're going to be and they might be something for three years and then be something else for a year. There are so many things happening in this world. And obviously, we’re living in the most exciting time in the world, we've got all the mad leaders, that's an opportunity for us to breed better leaders for the future. And if we do that, we are living in this period that everything is achievable, you can go viral over something. So, you might as well do something good and also the youngsters want good things. They are good people and they want to be better than the older generations. We were very greedy in the past and we want to change that. I see it in our students. I see that they are more interested in giving than receiving, but they're not allowed to do it. Once you empower students to do that, they are incredible, they’ll flourish.

Ela Crain  06:54

How is the student's daily schedule different from traditional schools like Montessori or Lumiere in Brazil?

Tim Vieira  07:03

It’s different because there is no daily schedule, there's a weekly schedule. So, our students know what they have to achieve for the week. They know what they have to do for biology, science and math. They know where they have to go play sports and do music. There's always a target and they know the target. It's called their timeline, but how they do it is up to them. So, if they wake up and there are waves, they'll go surfing in the morning, and then go to school. They don't have to go to school.

That's the difference. We empower you and then on Monday, we look at your timeline, what I have done. It's an honest talk, you've achieved this, great and you've missed out. Yeah. And the student can tell you, I didn't do that, but I'm going to do it this week. It's also more flexible because we can do exams twice a year. So, if it doesn't go well in May to November, there's less anxiety, it's not depression that our kids are going through.

You mentioned Montessori and Lumiere. A lot of these schools are great when they're young because there's a lot of things happening when they're young in lots of alternate systems. But then 12 to 18 is very little, it's almost traditional schooling or homeschooling. And now universities are also changing. So, there are changes in these two but this area, which for me is vital because that's what made me was those years, from 12 to 18, if I could write, I could make a movie on my life. At 14, I crashed a car, wrote it off, almost died, there was a lot of stuff that went through. So, these are all things that happened in my life and shaped my life. So, what we try to do is we've got kids that are skate champions, surf champions, horse riding champions, swimming champions and big into music. These kids can peer kids into also getting new parents. It's difficult as a parent, you tell your parents, go learn the guitar. The kid doesn't do it. But now he's actually in a hub where one kid plays the guitar and says, you want to learn the song? So, all of a sudden, he's into music. He tries skateboarding when you've got someone good at it showing you try it. And then also what happens is that the student that's playing the guitar gets better at it and he knows that he needs to get even better because in that way, he'll be looked up to, so you create confidence and you create a system between them, this whole peer to peer system is magical. And learning coaches and Parents get out of the way and you see it going. And kids don't have to be at our hubs for more than five hours a day. But they stay there long, they play chess, they play music there, they talk to each other, they go to lunch with each other because we don't have food at our hub. So, you go eat at the local restaurant, we have a plan to do that as well or you bring your food and microwave it, we have fridges, microwaves, water, and a screen. So, there's a lot of empowerments and they're so good at it.

Ela Crain  10:29

Do you cover areas like money management or even breathing and nutrition that have a connection to our bodies?

Tim Vieira  10:46

So, this is what we do, we do the knowledge and we call interests degrees. So, we bring money management, we use massive online open courses that we link to the kids and when a kid likes something, if he likes coding, he's just going to do more of it and become an expert at it. If breathing is only interesting for one child, he can do it. If one child wants to do yoga, he can do it. But it's never enforced on everyone. But if one benefits and another one sees him and says, I'm going to try it as well, it’s great. So, we don't impose but we open options and the great thing about this is that we can do it in Lisbon, London, Lagos, Nigeria and Luanda at the same quality, so we can do this whole knowledge at the same quality and they come out with an age RGC and a level, they can go to university. We can also bring these experiences around your community into a hub, so it's super special. We don't come with closed minds but at the same time, we give you the basics and then we let you expand. That's how we create individuals and that's how we create people that are thinking and people that are passionate and find a purpose to change the world. Our mentors create a lot of work on values and ethics because it's something we forgot about. It's something that is a building block for sure. I want our school to take us back to the day when we shake hands and it means something because, at the moment, it doesn't. We need to start trusting again because that's the only way we will become a better society. When kids help each other, they stop believing people are good because they are good. I also believe that we start creating fewer vampires if people just take more people to create, I think it's a model that isn't based on all this. It's based a lot on common sense and cares about how we keep a kid happy and doing things he lacks. How do we keep a parent happy, keep the kid happy? We don't work any other way around and we've seen the growth, we've now got 12 hubs in Portugal, have been Mozambique hubs in South Africa, we've got our first pilots that will go into the US, we've got a pilot that is going to India, so it's exciting times. Everyone wants to be a better person of themselves and they want to do it by not feeling embarrassed to try and fail. If they fail, it's fun. So, kids must be so different, we always put them in the same box, if you're 12, 13, 14, you are there but some kids are 12 and doing what 14-year-olds do and their 14-year-olds who do for a year or two but they quickly grow again. So that's also exciting.

Ela Crain  14:16

You're creating people who maintain their individuality and individual tastes, how to collaborate by maintaining their individuality?

Tim Vieira  14:23

We are creating the future because that's what we need. We need people that collaborate and admire what other people do. If one's great at art, we want people to say, that's our best artist and not only compare people to math and science, if someone is great at math and he helps us to get better ourselves because success is becoming better ourselves. It's not measured between myself and the others. At the moment, we look at others and then compare them. We need to be ourselves, so that's a lot of work we do. And even with our learning coaches, people that have finished their degree, we take them on, and we say, you've done a degree in engineering or architecture and now you're going to be working with these kids. They grow themselves because they get networking between kids. They start becoming mentors which means they need to act better and need to be open. They get a network with the parents and they go into the community. The community loves it because they economically gain from it. And we're able to do this at a reduced competitive price. We're able to even do it for people that would never get this education, we can say yes to them because even some of our parents sponsor a kid and give an extra 35 years and it goes towards the sponsorship. We work in a B Corp system. So where are we making a profit and able to give back and take more kids on to that purpose?

Ela Crain  16:14

Is there still a failure in the system?

Tim Vieira  16:17

It's every day because failure is growth. The kids are still going to not achieve what they wanted, or feel, I try so hard and I'm not getting there. So it happens, the only thing we do is we say swallow it and tomorrow's another day. It takes a month for passive kids to understand the platform but once they start to master it and get more confidence in it, they also understand, this is easy. Now let me try and push myself and try something different and when you push yourself, you can fail but it's great. It's a good feeling to not be successful and that's where I find in many traditional schools, you never fail until you leave it.

Ela Crain  17:10

What failure is labelled with you failing your class or your exam?

Tim Vieira  17:26

You don't fail, you delay because if you fail, then in May you rot in November. You realize maybe that's not for me and that's okay because if you realize that at 14, it is better than realizing that at 24. When we do find out what we like, failure is not even an option because failure is fear and, in the end, it breeds fear. That's why our name is brave. We don't have a track record. We don't work on history; we're looking at the future. So, the quicker you get into that in this world, it's better for you. The quicker you don't look back because it's very difficult to go forward when you're looking back. So, we pushed ourselves onto the way, our kids started telling others. It becomes a way of thinking, when you think about manpower and all it's huge, it's like a superpower. We teach people common sense and common sense takes away many fears because common sense makes you look at some numbers. And you say, this doesn't hurt me. I'm not scared. Or you listen to people telling you, you should be scared and you take it. So, we'd bring in a lot of common sense, we let you ask the right questions because that's how learning is about you asking questions, and you don't wait for a teacher to answer them. But you find data yourself because at the moment in this world we can find data for everything. We worry about little negatives and don’t think bigger. We sometimes are closed in and worry about the same thing.

Ela Crain  20:17

As a result, do you regard failure as a transient ailment?

Tim Vieira  20:24

Failures laugh at life, which is an issue if I'm looking back at the failure. It's fine if I fail and have to make a new plan. But I don't like wasting time on failure because there will be so many failures, ranging from personal matters to getting divorced or being fired from a job. It's a choice you must make in life. It's a total failure psychologically and socially, but if you look at it another way, you can never fail. That also means you've never tried, which makes for a rather dull existence. You can't fail if you never do anything.

Ela Crain  21:29

Was there a time when you thought you'd failed because you couldn't think of any other options?

Tim Vieira  21:44

I don't know anyone else if I get stuck. I don't have anyone to turn to for assistance. I'm not sure how to seek assistance. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to say, "Listen, I'm having trouble with this. "Could you please assist me? There are a lot of things; I'm terrible with numbers, but our businesses do extremely well with it. Because I have said, there are some things I don't need to do because it will be a complete failure; nonetheless, you must know how to ask for help. You must learn how to develop those abilities so that you do not turn into an asshole. You must be modest, and all of that comes from understanding that you are good at some things and bad at others. You will be more successful in the long run if you know other individuals. Also, don't constantly compare yourself to others. Would I be happier if I were richer? I wouldn't do that. Because I know that what I've done and the decisions I've made have more to do with my heart than with money, and I'm content with that, especially as I get old enough to realize that I'm going to die anyhow. So those are the points I've grasped. It doesn't matter how much money I make because they are my children. It's all about how much time and love I give them, because the more love and time I give him, the happier they are, and the happier they are, the better my relationship with him will be in the future.

So, you start learning these things, but they're all common knowledge, and we don't value success as much as money. I have a very wealthy friend who has little time for his children. He's impoverished because that's what you have to consider in terms of what you'll leave behind and where the smiles will come from. When you leave, who will be the one crying? And it's not just about who's expecting a check at the end.

Ela Crain  23:51

So, what does success mean to you?

Tim Vieira  23:55

For me, success means being able to do what you want, rather than always worrying about the bottom line. I believe you will be successful if you do so since you have a strong desire to do so. You can get really into it, and if you get up early and go to bed late, you'll have trouble sleeping because your head is buzzing with ideas. Is everything in your life perfect? No, it isn't, but it is a factor. Because you realize how far you've come, you know that nothing can be perfect. Every time you see a smile, every time you see a youngster who appeared to be failing in traditional schooling, not coming to school, he's joyful and telling his parents, "I need to go early," you get the feeling that things are changing. By the time they graduate from high school, they are even students at different schools. They can take care of themselves, practice self-discipline, and make phone calls. They've also realized that they've ceased living up to their expectations. Because they have done something wonderful, the parents believe they are better parents. We have the entire system in which we compete as parents, children, and in everything else.

So, I consider success to be doing what you enjoy rather than having to go out and do anything. But only do it if you enjoy it, which I believe is the first step, as well as doing it with people you enjoy. There are other enterprises that I could start and make money in, but I don't have the time. I don't have the energy to motivate them every day, and it's the end of the world every time there's a problem.

Ela Crain  25:59

I once read that running a business is similar to driving a bus; don't worry about the destination, just make sure you have the right people with you for the journey.

Tim Vieira  26:08

There are numerous secrets to business, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to common sense and trying new things one at a time. If something goes wrong, you'll have to wait till tomorrow. I believe we need to learn patience as well, and we have stopped thinking about failure with people who have a higher quality of life. I've had businesses that may or may not have been successful due to their foresight. It would have been a success two years later. Was it a complete failure? It was simply too good and too soon.

Ela Crain  26:57

You said earlier in our talk about the thirst for entrepreneurship. Where did the idea of entrepreneurship come from?

Tim Vieira  27:14

No, I was born into a family of immigrants. When your family is unable to provide you with anything because we are merely surviving and attempting to improve our situation, we have lost everything. So, you are self-motivated, you start thinking, you try things, and every time you do anything, even if it fails, it's an experience, and you're becoming better at ticking off another box. All of this was a natural evolution for me, and you can see that in many young countries with immigrants; they do incredibly well because they have to create their riches rather than relying on the state. When you're in Africa, you have to do it yourself because you can't wait on the government, and you soon realize that the only way to achieve independence is to become financially independent. Unfortunately, that is the case, but you also recognize that you can generate riches for those around you. So, you bring others along with you, and once you realize that with others, you grow faster. And as you progress, it begins to feel like a way of doing business and a way of life. I learned a lot from the initial wave of people who will do everything and work nonstop because all they want to do is give the kids a taste of life. Then I took a little from each of them, but I also want to spend time with my family. That's where I believe the blend came from.

Ela Crain  29:08

What was your first venture into entrepreneurship, even as a child?

Tim Vieira  29:18

My first attempt, when I was ten years old, was to dress in pegs. We dismantle them and turn them into rocking chairs. We used to sell these by bonding pegs to pegs and then varnishing them. It was fantastic since we were seldom bothered by pigs. My mother was purchasing pigs, and my neighbors were also purchasing pigs. My friend's parents kept pigs, and we would use the animals to make decorated rocking chairs. After that, we varnished them, and everyone wanted to buy one because we didn't pay with him. They'd be plastic nowadays, but those are all wooden pegs. And that was the first business that we mass-produced because you're an immigrant with working parents who need to do something.

Ela Crain  30:19

When it comes to education and entrepreneurship, Chicago Booth, you went back to school. What was the reason behind it?

Tim Vieira  30:32

I wanted to see whether I had missed out on anything, and all I had missed out on was networking and connecting with people. For that semester, I was named the most politically incorrect student at Chicago Booth. I value what they tell you and all that, but more than that, I value networking with people and learning from them because books, I can read books and think about them. But people, you can learn a lot, especially if you listen, and you don't always have to fail to learn; sometimes you can just learn by looking at what others have done; it's a lot better and less expensive.

Ela Crain  31:20

How do we find a balance between societies and individuals' responsibilities to give and receive a good education?

Tim Vieira  31:29

Education doesn't only come from the system; it starts with parents. So, we are all responsible for it, including the community and our leaders, what people are doing and seeing, It's part of education. We can do so much with structured education with fewer resources. We waste so many resources and lose a lot of students because we try to fit them all into one place. I think our governments could spend a lot less on education and all of us helping a little bit would make it that it's not just the teachers because they have a tough job. Our schools could be a lot more efficient in education. It's a sector and industry that is so fat with so much fat that it's bound to have to change because I look at it our education, the system I have can be free. What we are doing at the moment is we've taken taxis and then Uber, Lyft and Bolt came. That is changing the taxis and there are fewer taxis and they're more efficient, they’re cheaper with better quality. I think there will be black buses that are free that you just get on efficiently and you don't even think about it. But it's a great transport system that works for everyone. You get off when you want, you don't have to all go to the same place. I think there's going to be a big change in education. I hope so because we would say education is the most important thing. Education is the future but then what do we do? We just drop off our kids and pick them up and complain. That's where I've decided that I want to be different. I wanted to stop complaining and execute a plan. Not a very ambitious plan but a plan that can be executed. You've done this visionary thing in it. No, I haven't. I've just been using common sense and done a few things. It's changed the system of how we do it but overall, it's highly executable, more efficient, more personalized and flexible. That there would be a product that I would be interested in. I occasionally think back to traditional education since I've done it for my children for so long, but it's changing because I see younger parents who don't want it. They're staring at something completely different. Because they only saw University as a success, all of the parents desired it. No, it's not just University; there are a plethora of different paths to achievement.

Ela Crain  34:38

Because you employ hundreds of people, what is the worth of traditional university graduation to you? What method do you use to assess someone's education?

Tim Vieira  34:50

There's always going to be value in someone who's done a degree that shows it, they're committed and persevere if they've done the right one. If they haven't, I feel sorry for them because they've been good at persevering but are they going to be good at what they've learned? I think there are things that we are going to need, I want a doctor that knows what he's doing when he operates me but does he do four years in a building or does he do a year in a building in two years’ operating and learning from someone who's doing it, and then he's more hands-on from the beginning, and he sees more diseases from the beginning, he makes a few more mistakes from the beginning but its experience.

There are courses that I don't understand, you do coding for three years when coding should be done in a year and you should be working because it's changing so fast. They should be half the price and 20th of the price. I think that's where it's exciting, we are going to get really good degrees that are done online. And you'll be able to do them with other people and you can be working at the same time. You can be a painter that's learning to code, not even Picasso could do that. So, I think there will be changes, there are a lot of people that want to employ no degrees because they feel like they can shape them into the DNA of the company. They'll teach him what they need to know because sometimes you get people with a lot of skills and bad attitudes and you prefer the attitude more than the skill. So, if I interview someone with no degree but he's got a great attitude. I know, he's going to learn stuff and I want that person next to me learning and executing. There's going to be a lot of companies that are going to say, finish art school and come to us and we'll tell you what you need to do. After three years, you're going to forget all that and I'm going to teach you knew stuff because we've moved on. Technology changes every two years but we teach people over three or four years. How's that even possible, if we know all things but we just keep repeating them? I think technology on the tertiary side is going to come down to the same price. You've got all student debt and all problems, it's tons of changes.

Ela Crain  37:28

Do you believe that education should be more concentrated rather than distributed?

Tim Vieira  37:39

I think it should be more given on what is your interest because we are running low on plumbers. When I was travelling, I went on a trip around the world, it took me six visits to be able to finally cut my hair because the barber was all too busy. Some things are different and maybe being a barber isn't your passion but it might be good for four or five years, while you're building something and learning something. A plumber, maybe it's not the thing you thought you would want to be but you could make more money than a chartered accountant. So, these are the things that I think you'll start to become more not about Tom but more interested in specific drive and care. Because sometimes if you're going to be doing something that has nothing to do with both biologists, why have you done it for five years? And why do you get rated on it for five years? If you are never going to do anything to do with Balaji? Yes, while you could do for those five years, I've done what you were more interested in and you would have been more expert at it.

Ela Crain  38:48

I studied a lot of things. I studied archaeology and anthropology for four years and then I have a master's in filmmaking and a master's in cognitive brain sciences. I could have learned what I needed to learn in five to six years. And the only reason why I didn't drop out was, it wasn't too hard. I had to memorize and then just recite.

I want to talk about dropout rates because there's a lot of talk about dropout rates. I feel like people don't question the reasons behind it thoroughly. Of course, some students gain important opportunities to study in very good universities and cannot afford it. And then they have to part and that's sad. What is your take on the dropout and how can we reduce that rate?

Tim Vieira  39:50

The way to dropouts is having people study what they are passionate about and keeping them passionate but not giving them stuff to memorize, making them think and adding value to what they studied, so we need to look at it differently. I think for me, it's not just dropout rates, we have to talk about depression anxiety rates, so many issues that are out there, which are all made by us trying too just all be the same, we're not the same. It is what it is, we need to get over it, we need to become much more personalized in what we're doing. We need to be a lot quicker in learning. If you look at a kid who’s learning something that he's passionate about on YouTube, within two to three weeks, he's good at it, much better than anyone who was maybe going to study it for a year, that wasn't passionate about it. That kid knows a lot. They do incredible stuff; I think that's what's exciting now. There's going to be a lot of people that are going to think, do I have to do this degree? Or do I get the skill to become good at it and everyone starts saying, you're good at that and you start to be seen and then especially in this world, if you're good at something, you can grow it and you can become an influencer? You've got to really like it to be good at it and it's not what your parents have told you. It's very rare because, like something, you'll put your 10,000 hours into it. It's never really monetary that makes you drop out. It's more you've lost interest, you're questioning yourself. It's all excuses come through. Why are we still studying so many things that we don't need? There are so many things you're not going to get a job with and you're just going to go into the unemployed. You spoke about the film, Columbia film, the average person comes out of there with almost 200,000 debt and the average salary that they get is $37,000 a year. It's almost like saying you're screwed. We need something else that we don't have and we've got huge if you think about it. At the moment, there are huge pockets of people that we can't fulfil. The world has changed. You can be a nomad living in a desert and working for Google. It's amazing to understand what I'm saying. So, we need to give those skills. In Portugal, we need probably around 50,000 computer engineers a year producing 4000. Maybe we should quickly change our educational system. I think we have to become more adaptive, a lot more reactive to what the needs are in this world, it will help equality because we've got a big problem at the moment, the inequality is growing, we talk about climate change but inequality is a problem as well. If you are a Westerner, producing and using six times more energy than someone who's from Asia, yet we are telling them they need to improve the world. We need to see how we're going to improve the world. There are so many ways that we still can influence our world in climate but in the end, it was mostly about equality. We need to see how are those people in Asia going to improve without becoming like us and how can we go lower but still keep what we are comfortable with? One of the big things that you're mentioning is success? How do we see ourselves? We used to see ourselves by having a house, it has five rooms and we two people with six TVs in that room. As consumption and TV ads tell us, you'd be successful if you do this and that. It's all consumption. So, there are a lot of ways that education can change it because instead of studying history, maybe we should study the future. We will influence the world tomorrow. You can't change history. I can learn a few things from it but then I should learn about the future. What will I do to change it? How will I help more? How will I create wealth not just for me, but for a lot of people? So, there's a lot of stuff to do but education is the foundation of everything without a doubt.

Ela Crain  44:55

Do you have plans for Brave generation University?

Tim Vieira  45:02

No, we've got plans to have our hubs that change our student's life that is 12 to 18. And in the evening, our hub gives you more skills and maybe that's more mature people that come in the evening. So, come learn something that helps him. If that's the area needed, they can come to learn at our hub, so we won't impose it. We will welcome whatever is needed. I think that's what our hubs can do. So, when we look at Brave generation Academy, I don't want to be a university or a school. I want to use stuff that exists, I want to be a platform for so many great ideas that are coming, the second ecosystem. There are so many people coming up with great ideas, you can teach them at Brave, you can share them at Brave and you can do it with kids and in the evening, you can do it with adults. That's what we would love to do.

Ela Crain  46:02

And by the time they graduate, they are ready for life.

Tim Vieira  46:06

They'll never graduate, they'll be learning for the rest of their lives. They will learn and learn again. We used to go to school, go to high school, go to university, work, work, retire and die. Now we'll live like, go on holidays, work, take a break, learn something new and die, you might never retire. There will be life, I think it's changing fast. Governments might be lucky if we carried on doing what we were doing, they don't have enough money to look after us. We'll have to solve the depth of the system to look after ourselves.

Ela Crain  47:00

Do you think the governments will start changing their perspective of education?

Tim Vieira  47:05

I'm not going to wait because if I wait, it takes longer. It's a big and comfortable machine. We don't want to wait.

Ela Crain  47:15

Tim, thank you so much for your time. I feel like we spent the entire episode talking about education and I couldn't even touch the entrepreneurship part. I hope he will have you again here. Thank you.

Tim Vieira  47:28

Thanks for having me.